Faith-Based Partnerships

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  revtom 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #194

    watch-pray
    Keymaster

    For those of you new to this forum who are sharing some of our frustrations and concerns it may help to read some of recent articles on what we believe to be core issues. The main one being conservative pastors and denominational leaders getting the churches and ministries involved  government funded (taxpayer funded) Faith Based Programs. Let us know your thoughts and if you agree that this trajectory endangers religious freedom, is unbiblical, and dishonest since few people in the pew know it is even happening. We can look at the extent of this compromise in detail and outline even greater dangers than the obvious ones like “being unequally yoked with unbelievers.”  2nd Corinthians 6:14.11

    FAITH-BASED HEALTHCARE CLINICS PROVE A SLIPPERY SLOPE

  • #382

    JV
    Participant

    I understand, as Tom pointed out above, that this move toward the partnering of church/christian ministries has been long in the making, and I agree with watch-pray that this development is a troubling and unbibilical one.
    However, I think there are other dynamics playing into it. I volunteer with a christian non-profit serving low income in my community. It is a ministry that DOES preach the gospel and makes Christ the center of it all. Our founder is of conservative leaning. Our community is allegedly very ‘christian conservative,’ both in theological and political terms.
    You would think that there would be more support for this ministry than there is. However, it seems that ‘conservative Christians’ have become so politicized that care for the poor is considered “liberal,’ and though these same folks love to complain about how it isn’t the government’s role to care for the poor, when confronted with putting their money and time where their mouth is….the conservative churches are surprisingly awol. To our founder’s dismay, the reception by conservative churches was cold, but the reception by liberal churches was warm.
    The struggle to fund this ministry and meet the every growing need places us in the dilemma of the temptation of applying for federal and state grants, while believing it is wrong, yet being turned down by private grantors for being a faith based organization.
    Basically, if more conservative churches would be willing to follow Christ’s commands in this area, this would be less of a problem, and the temptation to take the trojan horse of caesar’s money would be less. We applied for a government grant that turned us down. And we recently received some state funds. This is a moral dilemma this ministry and its leaders have wrestled with since its inception. But if Christians would be obedient and give and serve the poor and needy more than we are, such ministries would not face such terrible decisions.
    That said, it does sound from reading the articles on this forum that this blend of church/state is becoming a “thing” in Christendom. Horrified to read this. And it is odd. We have such a hard time getting supporters, but conservative christian ministries are lining up to get these funds? So, conservative churches are all for helping the poor as long as the funds come from taxpayers? This is backwards and so sad.

  • #407

    JV
    Participant

    Tom,
    Usually a grant is for a certain period of time (say one to five years). When the time of the grant has elapsed, is that organization then bound thereafter by the regulations pertaining to explicitly religious activity?

  • #449

    Gwen
    Participant

    “The long term goal is control and to alter the mission of the church into having its resources exploited to better “society” not our eternal mission. Preaching an individual salvation is problematic to these goals- collectivism- it takes a village is the mantra.”

    This is absolutely true. I would suggest giving up the notion of “conservative” and “liberal” also. These labels are traps – shorthand ways of getting people to assume they are dealing with someone with whom they share values.

    Also, Rev. Tom has described, to some degree, in his blog posts the various machinations these entities are using to infiltrate and destroy Christianity. Most people (especially Christians) who do not study the background of these entities do not realize how long these ideologies have been around and how very patient and how very fixed their determination is. Attempts to discuss are met with name calling, especially “conspiracy theorist”.

  • #465

    watch-pray
    Keymaster

    By Thomas Littleton:

    Dear JV
    There is a huge long term plan in place and being implemented. The goals short term are to get churches into the funding at any level – Federal/ State/ County/ City- which makes them “contractors” of social services. The local money is often coming down form the Federal agencies. In the Obama admins overhaul of the Faith based programs puts ALL organizations under the oversight of the agency whose individual FB program funded it – even if it passes through the state or local gov. That is in tern under the oversight of Homeland Security. Think of that. FEMA, for example, has made great inroads into the church and ministries like Samaritans Purse by funding disaster relief.

    Obama overhauls – forbid “Any explicitly religious activity since the 2010 rule but did not enforce it until a “clarification ” in 2015, allowing many ministries to become dependent on it first and obtain the “Federal Contractor” status. Also in 2014 he issued an executive order about such contractors hiring policies include LGBTQ non discrimination policy.

    Conservative Christian groups / churches and denominations are moving more toward caring for the poor but it is because of two things – really three – 1. political clout offered by the FB Program participation, access to the White House ect. 2. The money itself to prop up budget shortfalls. 3. The rise of Communitarianism, especially among young reformed believers.

    There are always going to be issues with ecumenical efforts of conservatives and liberals together and almost always the push goes to interfaith – now more than ever. Hard as it may be- it is ALWAYS best to walk with those with whom you are spiritually agreed and avoid being yoked with unbelievers and the Government. The long term goal is control and to alter the mission of the church into having its resources exploited to better “society” not our eternal mission. Preaching an individual salvation is problematic to these goals – collectivism – it takes a village is the mantra.

  • #516

    revtom
    Keymaster

    There are restrictions to ministry in the 2009 reforms of the FBP programs – but they were not being enforced. Many more issues will surface as involvement by churches deepens.

  • #520

    JV
    Participant

    Tom,
    Thank you. I did a little digging on those requirements concerning FBO and while doing so, realized something awful: the school voucher idea is another Trojan horse. So, if I understand the guidelines I read, a religious school which takes students with vouchers, will be unable to provide religious instruction? If so, any Christian school which takes the vouchers becomes merely another private school. And one that refuses will lose students, because parents will go to the school that takes the vouchers. Low income parents who could not afford tuition would not have the option of attending REAL Christian schools. Eventually, the REAL Christian schools would likely have to shut down.

    Am I concluding this right, Tom?

  • #619

    revtom
    Keymaster

    JV
    Yes – sorry I missed your comment /question . YES the school voucher AND the Charter School programs are both Trojan Horses . These are progressive policies that have an end goal that is never the stated goal and made to sound very appealing -esp to conservatives and to Christians. If you look at this concept and who is if for it -that is a clue. The LGBT lobby loves the program and has fought for it- esp Charter or “Virtual public Schools”. The win for the government is control over the curriculum and the enrollment (among other things) and private funding takes care of much cost- since it is a “private school”yet under governmental restrictions and guidelines. Also in our area- the longer term outcome is the suburban churches schools are being filled with immigrant and inner city children provided a short cut to wealth redistribution – Obama style . Current funding with FBP in education will not be rolled back but stepped up as the Trump administrations Betsy Devos appears fully on board with it.. not to mention the Transgender bathroom and sex ed agendas. One day soon – the FBP under the new administration will come on line as the team is put in place -then will come the funding -to the same ends.

  • #689

    JV
    Participant

    Thanks, Tom for getting back to me on this.I had not considered until I was researching how churches/Christian non-profits accepting government funds would be restricted from sharing the Gospel, when I realized it probably applied to the voucher programs. The voucher programs would give government complete control over instruction in private and Christian schools.
    As for charter schools, have you heard about the chain of charter schools that are owned and operated by Muslims that indoctrinate students in Islam? Since charter schools are not required to abide by the state/federal laws (like Freedom of Information Act Requests) that public schools do, a heavy layer of secrecy lies over charter schools, and it is difficult for the public to even access basic information such as the school’s performance on standardized exams and the ACT. Let alone what is actually being taught in these schools. Parents place their students in these schools thinking they are better than public schools, but they need to actually be MORE vigilant, given that there is almost zero public scrutiny and accountability over them.
    In my state, charter schools are a big money-maker for certain special interests, and are being used to re-segregate our schools along racial and socio-economic lines more drastically than they already have been. The failure of certain schools is by design, to create the justification, rationalization, etc. for vouchers and charter schools. Educators who are actually making improvements in student learning in these schools are transferred, undermined, not promoted, or simply fired. As it plays out in my state, it is not re-distributing funds to poor inner city families and immigrant families. Rather is re-distributing tax dollars and public facilities to corporate and NGO entitities that implement their own agendas. Poor children and children of color simply become a commodity or a raw, natural resource of sorts. And the public, the tax payers have zero voice once this is implemented. State-takeovers of school districts are simply steps in the plan toward vouchers and charter schools.
    I wish that Christians who are so supportive of vouchers would realize that they are no boon to Christians, but a horrible trap. And I wish that desperate inner city parents could realize that the failure of their children’s schools are by design and that Charter schools are not going to save them. What voice, what power that parents and tax payers still retain should be used now…while it is still possible to use them.

  • #715

    revtom
    Keymaster

    JV
    Thanks for the input.

    Yes I had read some about the Muslim charter schools. I think one number I heard over a year ago was 135 of these schools already in the US.

    Of course for some Christians this would not appear to be problematic, thinking it is boosting religious freedoms protections to allow other religions to receive state funding for education. As you say – it is a trap – and from both points of view with the Muslims.

    Yes, I agree the money all has strings attached. It IS time, as you say, to be vigilant and not take these things at face value – OR go for the quick funding bait.

    Education is a primary front for the advance of most godless agendas in our culture. Wrapping the agenda in funding and a false narrative work well on the unsuspecting.

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